Comments on: The weekend roundup http://www.popandpolitics.com/2008/05/19/the-weekend-roundup-2/ Wed, 07 Jan 2009 23:26:55 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: Rob http://www.popandpolitics.com/2008/05/19/the-weekend-roundup-2/#comment-7502 Rob Fri, 30 May 2008 07:21:54 +0000 http://www.popandpolitics.com/2008/05/19/the-weekend-roundup-2/#comment-7502 Tocuhe my friend – However, this is a discussion I would like to continue over a cup of coffee someday… Tocuhe my friend –

However, this is a discussion I would like to continue over a cup of coffee someday…

]]> By: chris nelson http://www.popandpolitics.com/2008/05/19/the-weekend-roundup-2/#comment-7498 chris nelson Thu, 29 May 2008 19:27:48 +0000 http://www.popandpolitics.com/2008/05/19/the-weekend-roundup-2/#comment-7498 On the contrary, the United States just released an Al-Jazeera journalist from Guantanamo Bay after six years of imprisonment, no charges, no trial, nothing. I believe he had a five year old daughter who had never met. Regarding why people are upset over this, besides the obvious wrongful imprisonment of foreign nationals outside the US judiciary system, is the idea that we should be the standard-bearers for the world. As Gandhi said, if everyone subscribed to an "eye for an eye," the entire would be blind. Saying that we would be "glowing in the dark" if the "shoe was on the other foot" is conjecture at best because that's simply not the situation. We are the lone superpower in the world and as such, we should be expected to set the example in terms of how we treat not just our own citizens, but anyone else, regardless of their crime, alleged or otherwise. To do so is the basis for modern civilization and to abandon those values not only stoops us to the barbaric justice enacted on the likes of Daniel Pearl, it also destroys our honor as a nation when we violate binding agreements such as The Geneva Convention. Bush is the president, and therefore the figurehead of the United States. Just as he would be praised for achieving peace in the Middle East, he must also bear the brunt of the criticism for bringing war to the region. He is the Commander in Chief of the US military forces. When Enron implodes, the CEO goes to jail. When the military commits acts of atrocity or injustice, Bush is to blame as the man in charge. It was Bush alone who used his executive order to authorize torture of Gitmo detainees with absolutely zero input or action from Congress, so in fact, he IS directly to blame, not just as a figurehead, but as the man who signed the order. On the contrary, the United States just released an Al-Jazeera journalist from Guantanamo Bay after six years of imprisonment, no charges, no trial, nothing. I believe he had a five year old daughter who had never met.

Regarding why people are upset over this, besides the obvious wrongful imprisonment of foreign nationals outside the US judiciary system, is the idea that we should be the standard-bearers for the world. As Gandhi said, if everyone subscribed to an “eye for an eye,” the entire would be blind. Saying that we would be “glowing in the dark” if the “shoe was on the other foot” is conjecture at best because that’s simply not the situation. We are the lone superpower in the world and as such, we should be expected to set the example in terms of how we treat not just our own citizens, but anyone else, regardless of their crime, alleged or otherwise. To do so is the basis for modern civilization and to abandon those values not only stoops us to the barbaric justice enacted on the likes of Daniel Pearl, it also destroys our honor as a nation when we violate binding agreements such as The Geneva Convention.

Bush is the president, and therefore the figurehead of the United States. Just as he would be praised for achieving peace in the Middle East, he must also bear the brunt of the criticism for bringing war to the region. He is the Commander in Chief of the US military forces. When Enron implodes, the CEO goes to jail. When the military commits acts of atrocity or injustice, Bush is to blame as the man in charge. It was Bush alone who used his executive order to authorize torture of Gitmo detainees with absolutely zero input or action from Congress, so in fact, he IS directly to blame, not just as a figurehead, but as the man who signed the order.

]]> By: Rob http://www.popandpolitics.com/2008/05/19/the-weekend-roundup-2/#comment-7490 Rob Wed, 28 May 2008 22:56:21 +0000 http://www.popandpolitics.com/2008/05/19/the-weekend-roundup-2/#comment-7490 I'm not sure how the people Bush is referring to in his statement: "the plight of political prisoners in this region, as well as democratic activists who are intimidated or repressed, newspapers and civil society organizations that are shut down and dissidents whose voices are stifled" can be compared to those held in Guantanamo Bay? The US isn't holding newspaper writers and civil society organization workers there. They are holding "potential" mass murders and individuals who consider the bombing of a civilian target (Twin Towers, Night Clubs, Subway Stations, Etc), a success rather than collateral damage or a tragic mistake. I say "potential" because these individuals should be tried for their crimes or "alleged" crimes. I have seen some of the detainees first hand in Iraq and they are not school teachers or the kind of person we want sitting in a Leavenworth Jail cell within our countries boarders. I would have no problem keeping them in the country they were detained in, but that would cost the US even more money to build and maintain prisons in Iraq/Afghanistan and be an even bigger target for attack. Although I can't deny part of me would condone taking them all out back and putting two in their head, one in their chest justice (once proven guilty); I know that is not what our country is about (even though right after 9/11 most Americans, including the liberals, would have agreed with that kind of "justice" too). But, would these people the media crying for do the same for us? Would they worry about our human rights… Not on your life! Does that give us the right to treat them poorly? Does it give us the right to treat them with "disrespect?" According to the articles of war, the Geneva Convention, and all of the other “rules of war” the US follows, no it doesn't. But, we are the only ones following those rules in this fight. I promise if the shoe was on the other foot, we would not be having this discussion. We'd all be glowing in the dark or worst. I just don't understand why people in this country are so upset over this? Really! It makes me sick to hear people cry over some of these guys getting panties put on their heads. What about the things they have done? Sawing off a man’s head while he is still alive; an unarmed man at that. Where is the cry for him? Where is the call for justice? Do people really think that is an isolated incident? Or is it easier for them to forget about that? I just don't get it? It's easy in this country to point fingers; blame it all on Bush... but is he the real problem? What about our congress? What have they done for us lately? I am not saying Bus has it right, I'm saying it's all jacked up and people need to stop focusing on the easy target (The President) and start looking at the whole crew in DC. I don't trust any of them to be quite honest and that is pretty sad because I want to so badly. I believe in this country and its people... but there doesn't seem to be much to believe in these days does there? I’m not getting down on you personally. I’m just sick of hearing how outraged people are about Bush, but not Congress. I’m sick of the bleeding hearts for the guys at Gitmo, but not for the lives they have taken. I’m glad that Americans have the right to disagree and question our leaders, but we need to question them all. Ok, I’m done. Sorry – But I had to let that out. Peace Dude I’m not sure how the people Bush is referring to in his statement: “the plight of political prisoners in this region, as well as democratic activists who are intimidated or repressed, newspapers and civil society organizations that are shut down and dissidents whose voices are stifled” can be compared to those held in Guantanamo Bay? The US isn’t holding newspaper writers and civil society organization workers there. They are holding “potential” mass murders and individuals who consider the bombing of a civilian target (Twin Towers, Night Clubs, Subway Stations, Etc), a success rather than collateral damage or a tragic mistake. I say “potential” because these individuals should be tried for their crimes or “alleged” crimes. I have seen some of the detainees first hand in Iraq and they are not school teachers or the kind of person we want sitting in a Leavenworth Jail cell within our countries boarders.
I would have no problem keeping them in the country they were detained in, but that would cost the US even more money to build and maintain prisons in Iraq/Afghanistan and be an even bigger target for attack. Although I can’t deny part of me would condone taking them all out back and putting two in their head, one in their chest justice (once proven guilty); I know that is not what our country is about (even though right after 9/11 most Americans, including the liberals, would have agreed with that kind of “justice” too). But, would these people the media crying for do the same for us? Would they worry about our human rights… Not on your life!
Does that give us the right to treat them poorly? Does it give us the right to treat them with “disrespect?” According to the articles of war, the Geneva Convention, and all of the other “rules of war” the US follows, no it doesn’t. But, we are the only ones following those rules in this fight. I promise if the shoe was on the other foot, we would not be having this discussion. We’d all be glowing in the dark or worst. I just don’t understand why people in this country are so upset over this? Really! It makes me sick to hear people cry over some of these guys getting panties put on their heads. What about the things they have done? Sawing off a man’s head while he is still alive; an unarmed man at that. Where is the cry for him? Where is the call for justice? Do people really think that is an isolated incident? Or is it easier for them to forget about that? I just don’t get it?
It’s easy in this country to point fingers; blame it all on Bush… but is he the real problem? What about our congress? What have they done for us lately? I am not saying Bus has it right, I’m saying it’s all jacked up and people need to stop focusing on the easy target (The President) and start looking at the whole crew in DC. I don’t trust any of them to be quite honest and that is pretty sad because I want to so badly. I believe in this country and its people… but there doesn’t seem to be much to believe in these days does there?
I’m not getting down on you personally. I’m just sick of hearing how outraged people are about Bush, but not Congress. I’m sick of the bleeding hearts for the guys at Gitmo, but not for the lives they have taken. I’m glad that Americans have the right to disagree and question our leaders, but we need to question them all.
Ok, I’m done. Sorry – But I had to let that out.
Peace Dude

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