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	<title>Comments on: Do you need a suit and a penis to be in the Business Section?</title>
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	<link>http://www.popandpolitics.com/2008/07/28/do-you-need-a-suit-and-a-penis-to-be-in-the-business-section/</link>
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		<title>By: Julie Pippert</title>
		<link>http://www.popandpolitics.com/2008/07/28/do-you-need-a-suit-and-a-penis-to-be-in-the-business-section/comment-page-1/#comment-8201</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie Pippert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 13:39:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popandpolitics.com/?p=2778#comment-8201</guid>
		<description>This isn&#039;t about worthy or unworthy implication (imply is what I might include in my words, infer is what you might take from my words). This is about niching topics correctly. The BlogHer conference wasn&#039;t about fashion, design or style. I get that the writer is a frequent Style freelancer and she pitched it to those editors. However, the conference was about business, technology and writing. At the least, it ought to have been cross-posted to business or technology.

Sexism is so universally internationalized that it prompted you to write, &quot;Getting angry about the story being placed in the Style section instead of the Business section is almost like being sexist against yourself.&quot;

Oy!

Ponder that for a second...you&#039;re saying (implying, and I am inferring) that women belong on style and fashion, regardless, because it&#039;s the women&#039;s section.

At least five levels of wrong occur to me in the first three seconds of thought.

I also have to echo Backpacking Dad 100%.

Anonymous (above) sort of makes the point that Lara David did: it&#039;s not so much abotu WQUALITY as it is about EQUITY.

But more than that, it&#039;s about niching properly.

A conference about cosmetics can go on Fashion. A conference about interior design can go on Style. A conference about the psychological implications of properly arranged and designed interior space for people recovering from PTSD can go in about three places, including Style.

But BlogHer, a conference that contained panels about the business of blogging, the technology we use, politics, and writing...belongs on Technology.

It ran on Fashion &amp; Style because the writer is used to that niche--and so, unfortunately, an otherwise well-written piece launched with a negative caricature and stereotype of something that was really a drop in the bucket at the conference (massages, makeup and made over bathrooms)---and it was about women, which, sadly, to too many minds, meant it went in the section formerly known as the Ladies&#039; Section: Fashion and Style.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This isn&#8217;t about worthy or unworthy implication (imply is what I might include in my words, infer is what you might take from my words). This is about niching topics correctly. The BlogHer conference wasn&#8217;t about fashion, design or style. I get that the writer is a frequent Style freelancer and she pitched it to those editors. However, the conference was about business, technology and writing. At the least, it ought to have been cross-posted to business or technology.</p>
<p>Sexism is so universally internationalized that it prompted you to write, &#8220;Getting angry about the story being placed in the Style section instead of the Business section is almost like being sexist against yourself.&#8221;</p>
<p>Oy!</p>
<p>Ponder that for a second&#8230;you&#8217;re saying (implying, and I am inferring) that women belong on style and fashion, regardless, because it&#8217;s the women&#8217;s section.</p>
<p>At least five levels of wrong occur to me in the first three seconds of thought.</p>
<p>I also have to echo Backpacking Dad 100%.</p>
<p>Anonymous (above) sort of makes the point that Lara David did: it&#8217;s not so much abotu WQUALITY as it is about EQUITY.</p>
<p>But more than that, it&#8217;s about niching properly.</p>
<p>A conference about cosmetics can go on Fashion. A conference about interior design can go on Style. A conference about the psychological implications of properly arranged and designed interior space for people recovering from PTSD can go in about three places, including Style.</p>
<p>But BlogHer, a conference that contained panels about the business of blogging, the technology we use, politics, and writing&#8230;belongs on Technology.</p>
<p>It ran on Fashion &amp; Style because the writer is used to that niche&#8211;and so, unfortunately, an otherwise well-written piece launched with a negative caricature and stereotype of something that was really a drop in the bucket at the conference (massages, makeup and made over bathrooms)&#8212;and it was about women, which, sadly, to too many minds, meant it went in the section formerly known as the Ladies&#8217; Section: Fashion and Style.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.popandpolitics.com/2008/07/28/do-you-need-a-suit-and-a-penis-to-be-in-the-business-section/comment-page-1/#comment-8198</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 08:15:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popandpolitics.com/?p=2778#comment-8198</guid>
		<description>The example of the dermatology article given by the NY Times response is still about beauty and cosmetic surgery.  And he mentions that it was crossposted to Health and News.  The article on BlogHer was not crossposted to Business nor News, was it?

On the other hand, most of the women bloggers I read do blog about the subjects of personal life, fashion, weight-loss, etc.  If we&#039;re talking about the professional business world, neither men nor women generally consider personal life topics in the same arena as things such as medicine and politics.

As a feminist, I came to the conclusion that part of the problem is that feminists are asking for women to be judged as highly as the men with the same criteria as the men&#039;s world but they want to do women things.  No, if women want to write about personal life, we need our own scale that is for valuating personal life topics.

Now if most women bloggers sites were more like SimplyRecipes at elise.com, a blog on cooking and not personal chat, that would fit in the standards of the business world.  If women prefer the personal life topics over that, then what is wrong with being in a different category?

If you read the Business section, yes, most of the articles are about big corporations and global economics.  I dunno but asking to be in the business section might even make it seem like women don&#039;t have a clue what business is about.  I have not seen an article on individual male blogging in the Business section.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The example of the dermatology article given by the NY Times response is still about beauty and cosmetic surgery.  And he mentions that it was crossposted to Health and News.  The article on BlogHer was not crossposted to Business nor News, was it?</p>
<p>On the other hand, most of the women bloggers I read do blog about the subjects of personal life, fashion, weight-loss, etc.  If we&#8217;re talking about the professional business world, neither men nor women generally consider personal life topics in the same arena as things such as medicine and politics.</p>
<p>As a feminist, I came to the conclusion that part of the problem is that feminists are asking for women to be judged as highly as the men with the same criteria as the men&#8217;s world but they want to do women things.  No, if women want to write about personal life, we need our own scale that is for valuating personal life topics.</p>
<p>Now if most women bloggers sites were more like SimplyRecipes at elise.com, a blog on cooking and not personal chat, that would fit in the standards of the business world.  If women prefer the personal life topics over that, then what is wrong with being in a different category?</p>
<p>If you read the Business section, yes, most of the articles are about big corporations and global economics.  I dunno but asking to be in the business section might even make it seem like women don&#8217;t have a clue what business is about.  I have not seen an article on individual male blogging in the Business section.</p>
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		<title>By: tricia romano</title>
		<link>http://www.popandpolitics.com/2008/07/28/do-you-need-a-suit-and-a-penis-to-be-in-the-business-section/comment-page-1/#comment-8196</link>
		<dc:creator>tricia romano</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 19:16:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popandpolitics.com/?p=2778#comment-8196</guid>
		<description>thanks amy that&#039;s awesome!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks amy that&#8217;s awesome!</p>
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		<title>By: Amy Gahran</title>
		<link>http://www.popandpolitics.com/2008/07/28/do-you-need-a-suit-and-a-penis-to-be-in-the-business-section/comment-page-1/#comment-8195</link>
		<dc:creator>Amy Gahran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 18:58:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popandpolitics.com/?p=2778#comment-8195</guid>
		<description>Patricia, thanks so much for sending me a note about this post. I&#039;m sorry I missed it earlier. I just posted a followup item to Poynter&#039;s E-Media Tidbits highlighting your reporting, and adding some observations of what news orgs could learn from this.

http://poynter.org/column.asp?id=31&amp;aid=147887

- Amy Gahran</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Patricia, thanks so much for sending me a note about this post. I&#8217;m sorry I missed it earlier. I just posted a followup item to Poynter&#8217;s E-Media Tidbits highlighting your reporting, and adding some observations of what news orgs could learn from this.</p>
<p><a href="http://poynter.org/column.asp?id=31&amp;aid=147887" rel="nofollow">http://poynter.org/column.asp?id=31&amp;aid=147887</a></p>
<p>- Amy Gahran</p>
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		<title>By: The Compartmentilization of Blogging (or Bloggers)</title>
		<link>http://www.popandpolitics.com/2008/07/28/do-you-need-a-suit-and-a-penis-to-be-in-the-business-section/comment-page-1/#comment-8190</link>
		<dc:creator>The Compartmentilization of Blogging (or Bloggers)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 22:52:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popandpolitics.com/?p=2778#comment-8190</guid>
		<description>[...] of the event were furious that an article in the New York times on the conference was in the Style section. This was felt to be demeaning to the women who attended the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of the event were furious that an article in the New York times on the conference was in the Style section. This was felt to be demeaning to the women who attended the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dana</title>
		<link>http://www.popandpolitics.com/2008/07/28/do-you-need-a-suit-and-a-penis-to-be-in-the-business-section/comment-page-1/#comment-8188</link>
		<dc:creator>Dana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:12:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popandpolitics.com/?p=2778#comment-8188</guid>
		<description>Yes and no, Jack. 

People start by reading the posts but all too often certain niches are completely discounted, regardless of the quality of writing, simply because of subject. If you&#039;re a woman, you write and have kids, then you&#039;re pejoratively tagged as a &quot;mommyblogger.&quot; If you&#039;re a single woman sans kids you&#039;re tagged as a SATC knockoff. The stereotypes and feeble attempts at classifying women&#039;s writing are so numerous and ridiculous I can&#039;t keep track of them all anymore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes and no, Jack. </p>
<p>People start by reading the posts but all too often certain niches are completely discounted, regardless of the quality of writing, simply because of subject. If you&#8217;re a woman, you write and have kids, then you&#8217;re pejoratively tagged as a &#8220;mommyblogger.&#8221; If you&#8217;re a single woman sans kids you&#8217;re tagged as a SATC knockoff. The stereotypes and feeble attempts at classifying women&#8217;s writing are so numerous and ridiculous I can&#8217;t keep track of them all anymore.</p>
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		<title>By: Citizen of the Month &#187; I Have a Dick, Just Like the Writers of Techcrunch</title>
		<link>http://www.popandpolitics.com/2008/07/28/do-you-need-a-suit-and-a-penis-to-be-in-the-business-section/comment-page-1/#comment-8186</link>
		<dc:creator>Citizen of the Month &#187; I Have a Dick, Just Like the Writers of Techcrunch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 10:25:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popandpolitics.com/?p=2778#comment-8186</guid>
		<description>[...] Pop and Politics talks to the New York Times about the issue. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Pop and Politics talks to the New York Times about the issue. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://www.popandpolitics.com/2008/07/28/do-you-need-a-suit-and-a-penis-to-be-in-the-business-section/comment-page-1/#comment-8183</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 04:36:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popandpolitics.com/?p=2778#comment-8183</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;online hurdles for women are basically the same as real world hurdles. Less pay, less notoriety and acceptance—less, less, less.&lt;/i&gt;

That is garbage. There is an incredibly low barrier to entry to blogging. All you need is a computer and an internet connection. There are a hundred different free blogging platforms.

None of that involves gender. Great content that engages and attracts readers is not contingent upon gender. When people find a blog they start by reading the posts. They rarely begin by trying to determine the sex of the author.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>online hurdles for women are basically the same as real world hurdles. Less pay, less notoriety and acceptance—less, less, less.</i></p>
<p>That is garbage. There is an incredibly low barrier to entry to blogging. All you need is a computer and an internet connection. There are a hundred different free blogging platforms.</p>
<p>None of that involves gender. Great content that engages and attracts readers is not contingent upon gender. When people find a blog they start by reading the posts. They rarely begin by trying to determine the sex of the author.</p>
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		<title>By: Rita Arens</title>
		<link>http://www.popandpolitics.com/2008/07/28/do-you-need-a-suit-and-a-penis-to-be-in-the-business-section/comment-page-1/#comment-8182</link>
		<dc:creator>Rita Arens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 03:34:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popandpolitics.com/?p=2778#comment-8182</guid>
		<description>As a freelancer, I know you pitch where you think you will get traction. The writer did attend the conference and listen. I don&#039;t love her choice of title. But then again, it&#039;s possible she didn&#039;t choose it.

I don&#039;t like the placement of this article. I feel it makes an assumption about female bloggers, and many of us take on culture, current events, politics, race and gender along with shoes, lipstick and diapers. However, placement at all in a major newspaper is a win, and an opening for an article on the front page if things follow their current trajectory. This writing is changing how we relate to one another. This writing matters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a freelancer, I know you pitch where you think you will get traction. The writer did attend the conference and listen. I don&#8217;t love her choice of title. But then again, it&#8217;s possible she didn&#8217;t choose it.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t like the placement of this article. I feel it makes an assumption about female bloggers, and many of us take on culture, current events, politics, race and gender along with shoes, lipstick and diapers. However, placement at all in a major newspaper is a win, and an opening for an article on the front page if things follow their current trajectory. This writing is changing how we relate to one another. This writing matters.</p>
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		<title>By: Dana</title>
		<link>http://www.popandpolitics.com/2008/07/28/do-you-need-a-suit-and-a-penis-to-be-in-the-business-section/comment-page-1/#comment-8181</link>
		<dc:creator>Dana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 02:47:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popandpolitics.com/?p=2778#comment-8181</guid>
		<description>As a recovering mainstream journalist, I empathize somewhat with the writer. I fully realize that the editorial overlords are responsible for the majority of heinous atrocities that appear daily in major media. But yeah - something went terribly wrong at the NYT. There is a disconnect between new and old media and it&#039;s never more apparent than with incidents like this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a recovering mainstream journalist, I empathize somewhat with the writer. I fully realize that the editorial overlords are responsible for the majority of heinous atrocities that appear daily in major media. But yeah &#8211; something went terribly wrong at the NYT. There is a disconnect between new and old media and it&#8217;s never more apparent than with incidents like this.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Stacy McCain Would Rather Women Bloggers Just Sat Down and Shut Up &#171; P i l l o w b o o k</title>
		<link>http://www.popandpolitics.com/2008/07/28/do-you-need-a-suit-and-a-penis-to-be-in-the-business-section/comment-page-1/#comment-8175</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Stacy McCain Would Rather Women Bloggers Just Sat Down and Shut Up &#171; P i l l o w b o o k</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 22:24:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popandpolitics.com/?p=2778#comment-8175</guid>
		<description>[...] A somewhat shallow NYT article is what gave him his opening. (Response from teh NYT to criticism here.) Diagnosis: Small Penis disease. Prognosis: equally shrunken brain, with ever-enlarging asshole. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] A somewhat shallow NYT article is what gave him his opening. (Response from teh NYT to criticism here.) Diagnosis: Small Penis disease. Prognosis: equally shrunken brain, with ever-enlarging asshole. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: PunditMom</title>
		<link>http://www.popandpolitics.com/2008/07/28/do-you-need-a-suit-and-a-penis-to-be-in-the-business-section/comment-page-1/#comment-8174</link>
		<dc:creator>PunditMom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 22:20:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popandpolitics.com/?p=2778#comment-8174</guid>
		<description>I got to talk w/ Kara and can attest that she did a LOT of research for the piece.  But whether or not she pitched it for the Style section, it&#039;s still up to the editors where it goes.  Was coverage of Netroots Nation in the Style section?  While it is great that the BlogHer conference was covered, many of us blog about politics, as they bloggers who attended Netroots Nation did and would love to see our political commentary taken as seriously as that of others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I got to talk w/ Kara and can attest that she did a LOT of research for the piece.  But whether or not she pitched it for the Style section, it&#8217;s still up to the editors where it goes.  Was coverage of Netroots Nation in the Style section?  While it is great that the BlogHer conference was covered, many of us blog about politics, as they bloggers who attended Netroots Nation did and would love to see our political commentary taken as seriously as that of others.</p>
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		<title>By: chris nelson</title>
		<link>http://www.popandpolitics.com/2008/07/28/do-you-need-a-suit-and-a-penis-to-be-in-the-business-section/comment-page-1/#comment-8168</link>
		<dc:creator>chris nelson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 19:50:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popandpolitics.com/?p=2778#comment-8168</guid>
		<description>@Dana:

So you&#039;re saying it&#039;s all in the packaging, regardless of how many serious issues they actually cover?  I&#039;m intrigued because I&#039;m not a female, not a New Yorker or an avid reader of the Style section, but I am a blogger and my knee-jerk was definitely pretty skewed toward the &quot;this is bullshit&quot; end of the spectrum.

Maybe this is another facet of the problem, but it sounds like the writer already had a relationship with Mr. Gabriel.  As a writer, you&#039;ll get your pieces published where you can, so if it was the choice between Style section or zero visibility in the NY Times at all for the piece, it would be tough for the writer to suddenly find morals there.

I get your point, though.  Someone went wrong at the Times.  Just tough to pin the blame on any one person, imo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Dana:</p>
<p>So you&#8217;re saying it&#8217;s all in the packaging, regardless of how many serious issues they actually cover?  I&#8217;m intrigued because I&#8217;m not a female, not a New Yorker or an avid reader of the Style section, but I am a blogger and my knee-jerk was definitely pretty skewed toward the &#8220;this is bullshit&#8221; end of the spectrum.</p>
<p>Maybe this is another facet of the problem, but it sounds like the writer already had a relationship with Mr. Gabriel.  As a writer, you&#8217;ll get your pieces published where you can, so if it was the choice between Style section or zero visibility in the NY Times at all for the piece, it would be tough for the writer to suddenly find morals there.</p>
<p>I get your point, though.  Someone went wrong at the Times.  Just tough to pin the blame on any one person, imo.</p>
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		<title>By: anna</title>
		<link>http://www.popandpolitics.com/2008/07/28/do-you-need-a-suit-and-a-penis-to-be-in-the-business-section/comment-page-1/#comment-8165</link>
		<dc:creator>anna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 19:37:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popandpolitics.com/?p=2778#comment-8165</guid>
		<description>Bottom line: they put it where the editors felt that it would be best received. And the writer of the article can bitch all she wants about 70s feminist issues but she&#039;s the one who focuses on eyeshadow and uses Katie Couric as a verb.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bottom line: they put it where the editors felt that it would be best received. And the writer of the article can bitch all she wants about 70s feminist issues but she&#8217;s the one who focuses on eyeshadow and uses Katie Couric as a verb.</p>
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		<title>By: Dana</title>
		<link>http://www.popandpolitics.com/2008/07/28/do-you-need-a-suit-and-a-penis-to-be-in-the-business-section/comment-page-1/#comment-8164</link>
		<dc:creator>Dana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 19:33:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.popandpolitics.com/?p=2778#comment-8164</guid>
		<description>Chris, I think I addressed that in my comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris, I think I addressed that in my comment.</p>
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